#38 An Industry Insider's Perspective (with Steve Smith from PHCPPROS)

What has Steve Steve learned about the plumbing and heating industry since 1990?  What happens at the MCE Mostra Convengo trade show in Italy? What part of the Caleffi factory reminded Steve of Raiders of the Lost Ark? How do you, "automate for the best?"  What was Steve's favorite meal? Why has nobody interviewed this guy before?  

In this episode, Dan and Greg sit with Steve Smith to hear more about his recent trip to Italy to visit the Caleffi factory and visit Mostra.  He details some of the most memorable sections of the tour, on the topics of manufacturing, company culture, and even coffee culture.  Find out how manufacturers and contractors can learn from each other and find the right information at the right time.  

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Transcript

0:04
welcome to ask caleffi the podcast that dives into real life problems at
0:10
Plumbing an HVAC technicians face in the field we're your hosts from the caleffi tech support team I'm Greg Tubbs and I'm
0:17
Dan furkus welcome we look forward to sharing some stories from our Tech calls and using our background and expertise
0:23
to make your days a little easier
0:28
hey there and welcome back to the ask Lefty podcast are we doing Dan doing
0:34
great today Greg exciting day for us yeah we have a pretty big name guess at least we see him as a pretty big name
0:40
guest absolutely one of the biggest one of the biggest biggest in stature for sure
0:46
we have Steve Smith with a phcp Pros
0:55
how we doing Steve thanks for inviting me you know I'm excited I've been reporting on this industry since 1990
1:02
actually been doing this since 1982 40 years in September wow and I probably interviewed 100 million people in that
1:09
time frame and I've never been interviewed myself so interesting I'm excited to be on the other side of the
1:14
microphone yes but I I it's just a matter of introduction again uh I've been uh I'm
1:20
the editor of phc news we also publish uh we're also uh our website is phc Perros which kind of mingles the uh
1:27
three magazines that we produce to one website I think that's very very good website to go on phcp Pros it is it is
1:35
every time I go on there there's always there's a lot there is a lot of information available there's a lot of
1:41
rabbit holes that jump down well I'm glad to hear that but uh as I mentioned I've been reporting this interest in
1:46
1990 it's a great industry I I tell you I I probably met the most authentic
1:51
people in my life just reporting on toilets water heaters uh and I've been
1:58
doing it mostly I suppose recently certainly from the contract and installer side but I also have covered
2:06
the industry from the wholesaling distribution side and as well as the engineering side too so I've kind of
2:12
seen all aspects of it and you know it's just a tremendous industry you know just quickly I got started out of college in
2:18
1982 and at some point you know I was in the news writing 103 class if I Remember
2:23
by numerals right and there was a guy that came in to speak to us I mean a guest speaker it wasn't a regular instructor and he said you know just
2:30
imagine any occupation on the face of the Earth and I bet there's four or five
2:36
magazines that you write for now this was in the 80s so maybe there are not as many magazines as they used to be sure
2:42
but there's certainly three uh for any occupation on the face of the earth when I heard that I thought wow that's
2:48
interesting because I didn't want to be a newspaper guy right I didn't want to write for a general circulation kind of
2:53
magazine or newspaper I wanted know who I was writing for so I made a beeline to
2:59
Chicago after college that's why I wanted to work primarily and I worked for trade associations for seven years
3:04
so that's kind of you know a form of B2B I guess uh we didn't really necessarily have a magazine per se in those years
3:10
but I covered you know Financial things which I thought was pretty exciting at the time and there used to be a place uh
3:17
close to my house called Horton publishing biggest day and it anytime you wanted to go to movie shopping nine
3:24
times out of ten your path took you by this place walking right past it and somewhere along the line I slowed down
3:30
slow enough to read the writing on the on the on the front door they had two
3:35
magazines one was supply house times and the other was plumbing and mechanical and I didn't have a clue what a supply
3:42
house was and pulling mechanic was like yeah I don't know about that so I you know I never really thought much about
3:48
it and somewhere along the line I answered a blind box ad when they're still help wanted ads in the Chicago Tribune
3:56
and a ton of them that's why I got into this industry wow and uh yeah it was a
4:01
great introduction I remember those years uh uh very well it was uh you know at the time it was a small family
4:07
business sure and uh you know we yeah going on to uh well I still work at Fred
4:13
for uh relatively small family business too uh but in the me in the meantime in between those two places at least I
4:20
worked for you know pretty big large uh corporate I guess uh Publishers too but uh yeah but it's a tremendous industry
4:28
um I was just telling people the other day again I traveled the world in the United States just because I know something about
4:34
toilets I guess you know it's a great that's a great thing to say yeah well and the people you meet along the
4:41
journey as well absolutely yeah excellent so you just came back from a big trip yeah we were in uh Italy in
4:48
June uh I guess of caleffi of course uh we took a factory tour on Monday
4:53
whatever Monday that would be and then Tuesday we were all on a bus to see mostra okay and then on Wednesday we
5:01
went back and talked to more people about manufacturing sure what'd you think of
5:07
Monstra Maestro was a tremendous you know I had not been to that show at all ever I've been to ish many times
5:14
so if anyone has been to that they would relate to mostra pretty well okay in the sense that you know in the
5:20
United States usually like you go to McCormick Place in Chicago and it's not necessarily one Hall usually in
5:26
Mccormick places that one big one and then the other one on the other side yeah there's no no one ever thinks about the the original one on the east side uh
5:33
but you know it's essentially one big place that you're going at most Nish and
5:39
maybe elsewhere in Europe uh maybe that's the thing for trade shows these are the only two I've really been to Sure uh but they're you know
5:45
interconnected buildings so there's separate buildings you know one might be boilers one might be green one might be
5:51
HVAC one might be Plumbing one might be duels so they're all you know connected on a
5:57
concourse a walkway it's loaded with restaurants and bars and things so uh you know it it's very very interesting
6:04
now um I recommend everyone go to ish for sure I guess that's next year I haven't been
6:10
to that myself for many many years I'm hoping maybe I can get to go one more time monster was very interesting I mean
6:15
again I don't know what the attendance figure was maybe you guys I did see a press release but we're talking you know
6:21
five Figures it's it's a huge huge show and caleffi had a huge huge booth and uh
6:27
a very nice Hospitality uh uh part of the booth as well
6:32
um but that said you know obviously I know caleffi very well um and there were some
6:38
familiar names to American audiences was I walked around but then a lot that you
6:43
know aren't for whatever reason in in America and you know they're happy not to be right that's their own decision
6:50
but uh I was really surprised um at how many new names there are that
6:56
I've never heard of and it the choice is is amazing how many how many faucets uh
7:04
and that yeah there's so much awesome valves I mean again yeah there were I
7:09
offhand I I'm going to say 10 buildings there could have been more um but they're all full of yeah and um
7:17
you know I'm sure they hadn't had mostra for a couple years with uh I think it's
7:23
in every other year show anyway uh every other year opposite ish so yeah it was good to always good to go to a trade
7:29
show yeah sounds like a great opportunity to see a lot of products and manufacturers you maybe don't see every
7:35
day here in North America absolutely yeah you always learn something there's always something new yeah and here we
7:40
are in Milwaukee you know Milwaukee tool had a huge Booth I was glad to see that yeah yeah so again there's always the
7:46
The Familiar names but there's a ton out there that you've never heard of I bet
7:51
yeah that shows you how big the plumbing and heating industry is sure yeah absolutely so from there you ended up
7:59
going to do a factory tour we started uh Monday with a full day of a factory
8:05
touring I guess and then went to moisture on Tuesday and uh then on
8:10
Wednesday we went back so um we saw a ton of stuff obviously and I guess the
8:18
things that would stick out to me most is you know just well let's back up a
8:24
bit I mean it's always shocking to me just to see things made right you know I mean I'm I'm not in a factory every day
8:32
you know I'm sitting at a desk not really I guess I'm making something yeah
8:37
yeah we all have a lot are we all ever a lot in life some some people do great
8:42
with writing and and the written word and some of us do better with our hands yeah you know building something but you
8:50
know I mean just the how does it all go together I I have no one no clue I have no background
8:57
to understand how you get the raw Source material and how it gets shipped out the door and
9:04
everything in between when you see it it's like oh the coordination and the working together and just the
9:12
metrics it's just amazing to see yeah that's what stands out to me you get you know you have to take this from a
9:17
concept to creation and get it sold and in the field and there's a lot of
9:23
there's a lot of things that go into it a lot of stuff sourcing the raw material yeah to
9:29
getting it there and shaping it into the product and then marketing the product
9:35
and certainly a lot of automation uh in any
9:41
Factory um but there's still a lot of stuff that requires two hands two human hands
9:47
putting it together and there's no other way to really do it right with a robot you go I mean robots
9:55
can do plenty of stuff and let's let them do what they can do right um but there's still the attention to
10:01
detail and the dexterity I guess a robot doesn't have it right sure and it just you know just seeing all that
10:09
stuff made in front of your eyes and the factory was uh you know the manufacturing is one thing we definitely
10:16
saw certainly plenty of evidence of manufacturing Excellence when we were there
10:21
um but the one thing I wanted to see the most was actually the last thing we saw would be the vertical Warehouse I believe this is like 10 stories tall
10:28
yeah and the lights were on just for our benefits but if you can picture
10:34
something out of you know like the last scene of uh of Raiders of Lost Ark where
10:41
they're putting the Ark in that big warehouse and it goes way all the way back it's kind of like that only with
10:47
robots um everything is picked and stored on
10:52
shelves like I said go 10 stories up all these robots going back back and forth up down up down all day long I guess and
11:00
they do it in the dark Robert they don't need the lights right um so it's kind of funny when they said
11:05
that to us because it was obviously very brightly lit when we were there but the fact that you know this is all done in
11:11
pitch dark uh was really something to see um yeah a really wanted to see that
11:17
the most I had seen something like that once before when I went to ish uh at a boiler manufacturer in Germany
11:25
um and it was it was uh I think this was even bigger than that uh and just it's hard to describe I mean
11:32
I'll try my best but you know it's like a little train system that brought you know things pallets nothing more than that and it
11:39
the the the brains behind this operation knows exactly where these things are right uh because there didn't seem to be
11:46
any logical Rhyme or Reason to where these things were picked and stored and then they knew how to get it it's just a
11:53
wooden pallet that's hoisted up 10 stories and stuffed where there's an empty space I guess essentially
12:00
yeah and then of course it has to come down and and the shipping receiving was right there too and of course the trucks
12:06
and off their off they go to uh the warehouse and uh into America I guess
12:12
yeah so you put in a part number and the Machine goes out in this big big warehouse and finds the product and
12:17
brings it back yeah they made a point too of um you know where they are where caleffi is in
12:24
in Italy for their headquarters at least um you know they're very landlocked and they don't have any space to expand
12:31
I mean I think you guys here have some empty space behind your Warehouse that maybe you're going to add on to it
12:37
someday yep someday soon yeah but there they don't so the only option for warehousing at least was to go up 10
12:44
stories up yeah so that was interesting that's pretty amazing it is real estate goes for a premium there and
12:50
if you only have so much room to expand outward upward is the next place to go yeah yeah well I mentioned you mentioned
12:57
the lights in the warehouse you're right the lights are there for the tours they're not there for us right for warehouse workers but I did like uh you
13:06
know some of the culture that I did see that uh they made a point of saying like at lunch time Everybody Eats lunch you
13:14
know at a restaurant maybe or or or not not at their workspace you know Americans we're used to eating at our
13:20
desk and I'm guilty of it I do it all the time all the time uh but no no you
13:25
can't you can't do that and then there was uh you know Coffee Culture is huge in Italy no surprise there but what was
13:32
surprising was and I have a picture somewhere uh a vending machine with literally 20 25 options of coffee really
13:39
that you could have really crazy day and the coffee break was pretty pretty important as well yeah spot on it second
13:46
time I think there's probably two and they were second and third only to only the lunch break oh wow yeah we're here
13:53
we're used to eating on the go yes just keep it keeps moving the day keeps moving so maybe that's probably a good
13:59
thing we should try to adopt yeah it'd be great eat somewhere else not at your desk and have a cup of coffee come on
14:05
yeah I can't beat that take to take a break slow down a little take a break yeah break yeah so through your
14:11
illustrious career I'm sure you've had had opportunity to tour other
14:17
manufacturing facilities I mean I guess how did how did the caleffi yeah
14:23
experience stack up to others well I think uh everybody's moving toward automation that that's you know there's
14:30
no two is about that but sure it's it's gonna happen um and we saw that I've seen that
14:36
elsewhere of course many places but in in California in Italy um there were you know robotic
14:43
um Material Handling Systems uh forklifts I guess
14:48
um all robotic all controlled I thought maybe there was a strip in the floor somehow but there were radio frequencies
14:56
above somehow like an antenna okay and they knew where to go now there were
15:01
still you know human beings human beings driving forklifts too and there was also kind of an
15:07
interesting thing that I haven't think I'd quite seen where they called them cobots meaning in a workstation maybe
15:15
there were two people two human beings uh side by side but in the middle
15:20
there was a robot when I say robot I'm talking one of those robotic arms sure um that was doing its thing all
15:26
protected of course because you know or you gotta stay away from the robots um but the point was made that there
15:33
were again some things that you got to do by hand and other things that maybe you can mechanize and automate
15:39
so obviously any manufacturer I've ever gone to is slowly but surely kind of
15:44
moving toward more automation but it was good to see uh I hadn't seen I I don't think I'd understood the concept of
15:51
cobots before I saw that yeah we have certain products of course that will
15:56
take you know humans to to help with assembly but I know we have a number of products over there that are built a
16:03
hundred percent with automation yeah I mean from the time the the raw materials
16:08
loaded into being measured tested quality checked and boxed and out the
16:14
door 100 by yeah we definitely saw that I know later after we get down here I
16:20
want to talk to others at caleffi here in Milwaukee to talk about particularly about the 521 valve which we did see as
16:25
well and I know that's a pretty big product for you guys uh in America at least everywhere it really is
16:33
um but there was one uh and I was reckon my brain to try to figure out the name of it I'm gonna have to call Max Max
16:38
Roar later because I know we we saw that but that was that was exactly it um I believe that's our robocale yeah
16:46
exactly kind of like at the top and a bottom correct and then gaskets and seals in between and so that was all
16:53
done in one workstation and then boxed as well that's the same place so you didn't have to walk that's the other
16:59
thing that they made Point very clear to me again with covet I haven't been out
17:04
and about to many factories in the last few years sure so you kind of forget some things you learned over the years uh but uh you know one of those things
17:12
was that you know if you could limit the walking you're going to save time of course and
17:18
energy and confusion you know it just it's so much that's the thing about
17:24
manufacturing when it just pulls me over about the the coordination of of thinking about all those little steps
17:30
yep yeah coordination to maximize efficiency yeah well and then machine as it's manufacturing it it's measuring
17:36
every aspect of it right in quality checking it as well and if it doesn't come out to meat specs it'll it'll
17:42
reject it yeah so it has that the ability to do that all in that automated process yeah we saw some interesting
17:48
quality control aspects too that were kind of I almost literally brand new because we were there on a Monday and
17:54
Friday I think they had put this thing together and it was uh kind of um
18:00
a video camera I guess and you could compare the silhouette
18:05
almost uh I'm oversimplifying right but the silhouette of the product and the
18:11
measurements and all the you know micrometers and everything else yeah scanning that yes exactly right so
18:18
another example of automating for the best yeah
18:23
so with your tour you know and seeing all the the aspects of the caleffi factory if you were put yourself in the
18:30
place of an installer in the field you know what what aspect you know might have impressed you the most that would
18:36
make you want to use that use our products well I think uh any installer
18:41
would benefit greatly to take a factory tour if they can go to California
18:47
if uh they have another favorite manufacturer go to that go to that factory yeah
18:52
um again once you see it with your own eyes see things out how they're made well and made well
19:00
I guess you know that's part of the part of the should I use this should I use that if you can see something made and
19:06
clearly it's done correctly and efficiently and I mean look at all the people then all the steps that go into
19:12
that I think uh it would make up your mind if you're on the fence between this valve and that valve to see that
19:19
particular valve made and you know besides that of course it's good to go out and see things with your own eyes
19:25
but there's the camaraderie that comes along with that factory tour you know we had a couple of group dinners as part of
19:32
the experience that we had in Italy so anytime you can you know get out and
19:38
about to a manufacturer and I'm you know look they're I'm sure they're glad to see you oh it hasn't installed they
19:44
won't see there but you know I mean this is a people business and uh but at the same time you know people are also
19:51
getting so busy that sometimes sometimes you know they they don't have time to do business with people so they need to see
19:57
something and then feel confident that they can go forward uh with with knowing
20:03
that they've made the right choice I guess that's how I think about it lately no I think you're right if you can get out and see or see the factory and see
20:10
that the quality and effort put into manufacturing the product and then surrounded by good people and good
20:16
company culture I think that that really will bond yeah and again at Italy we saw
20:22
a manufacturing we saw the warehouse with the uh vertical warehouse and then you know I've been here in Milwaukee
20:28
many times and that's the one reason I came back because I saw manufacturing
20:33
Excellence clearly on display but at the same time um you know I can't I know contractors
20:39
buy more than one thing at a time but what I like to do is find out okay and I've talked about this before with Mark
20:45
Olson and other people here um I'm I'm a contractor America I I need one valve I go to the local Warehouse
20:53
local spouse how do I ensure that it's there and how do I know that it's there
20:58
and that's why I want to find out more just kind of put the two together got manufacturing warehousing I guess in one
21:03
you know many many miles away and then here you've got a warehouse I know there's problems with uh Logistics and
21:09
supply chain issues and that's not going away anytime soon either no and I think we've done really well wouldn't you say
21:15
Greg yeah we're really working hard at trying to keep shelves stocked and product available to kick out the door
21:22
when someone does run low on some right right yeah because we were here last year talked to Mark Olson exactly about
21:29
that thing I think it is we put it you know if there's more stuff in the barn I mean in the warehouse yeah that that
21:34
normally you wouldn't want financially to have there but just sitting on the shelf it has to do with the temperature
21:40
of of the climate we're in we needed it badly right you kind of you said
21:46
something just a few lines ago that this is a people business you know people
21:51
need to be in contact what is the best way you've seen manufacturers and kind of contractors sure communicate
21:58
well uh too early as we've been talking about um and let's not forget to roll the
22:04
manufacture replays I mean they're they're key I think I agree I think maybe they're the most important part of
22:10
it all because those are the guys that are training holding counter days probably
22:16
uh having uh educational sessions either kind of a miniature one right on the fly at the counter days you know have a hot
22:22
dog and learn to use this or literally having a classroom or more importantly too you know digitally obviously is is
22:29
uh you know we live in a digital world don't we we do uh here we are talking on a podcast it didn't exist for I don't
22:35
know a couple years ago you guys didn't have one right right um so it's another way of sharing the information so anything any word any way
22:42
you can get the word out all the best it's best I suppose to uh make it face
22:48
to face when you can but um you know information is key and how
22:54
do you how do you do it not you know I'm kind of biased in my sense what I do for a living what am I I'm a print
23:00
journalist but of course we have a website we have e-newsletters and you have to you know the magazine is monthly
23:07
maybe maybe 20 years ago that was good enough right but your website is daily newsletters are weekly and the magazine
23:15
is once a month so you kind of cover all the bases that way so um getting back to manufacturers I mean
23:21
people manufacturers are doing exactly what I guess editors are doing now it could be a print product I mean I
23:28
know you got the hydronics that is yes very popular in print yeah
23:33
um we do our coffee with caleffi webinars monthly right yeah and then we have just
23:39
our general tech support So tech support the blog um there's like you said a ton of stuff
23:45
if you don't keep up with all that stuff you you turn into a ghost yes you're not nearly as
23:52
right yeah I don't I mean maybe maybe it was the case years ago decades ago the manufacturer could make something and
23:59
you know here we are folks and maybe they found the way that they were in somehow someway and kept kept at it you
24:06
know I don't think a startup company could could do that now they'd have to they'd have to educate they'd have to
24:11
train they'd have to promote whether that be print or digitally or podcast whatever right it's all information
24:17
right I mean I'm an installer and I'm wondering what to do I need to know what
24:23
that is and I need to I guess learn that in my own way maybe maybe I do learn by
24:29
reading right maybe reading probably I learned more if I'm doing as an installer or if you're like some of us
24:38
with a phone in hand got QR Code Reader hey this product's got a QR code yes on
24:43
the box right right there let's see where it takes exactly exactly it'll take you to a video of that'll show you
24:48
how to exactly disassemble and clean a backflow or whatever that product might be and what what couldn't be more
24:54
opportune at that point in time too yeah yeah you take a scan of the QR code on
25:00
the box and get taken to a website to learn a you know see a video of a how to install or how to troubleshoot yes
25:06
that's shocking how immediate yeah that is nowadays so anything you can do to do
25:11
that and kind of set the contractor's mind at ease is the best thing to do I think
25:17
you're right it's making it easy for the contact contractor to find that information right I think that's key
25:23
yeah yeah because there's so much out there yeah you get lost yeah there is and you have to uh
25:29
do it in multiple formats to key in you know okay like I said we some people like to read some people like to do some
25:36
people are in our trucks all day and they can listen to a podcast right well in their iPhone yeah and every format is
25:42
it sometimes is geared to a different audience too I mean you know a contractor may not have an hour to sit
25:48
down and watch a coffee with fluffy webinar that's right um but they can jump in and listen to a
25:54
podcast you know they might not have time to read the idronics they maybe they want to scan that QR code and get to a video and get right get it a little
26:01
quicker absolutely well we're uh we're getting pretty technical with with
26:07
everything we're talking about let's let's lighten the mood a little bit we all like food right yes
26:13
yes I do I'm guilty of that yeah my hobby used to be cooking but it's really
26:19
eating I mean let's be honest with you end result yeah it's the means to the end yes absolutely so you got to uh
26:27
experience some Italian cuisine what did you think what was one of your favorites oh very good yeah well again I am a
26:34
foodie I used to read QuickBooks like they were actually books you know with a plot and a beginning a middle and an end
26:40
um I'd have to live ten thousand years to make all the recipes of all the books I have at home
26:45
um but I really enjoyed the first night we were in town you know we got to when
26:51
everything was said and done we got into Rona on Saturday afternoon and we met uh
26:57
Max and Sharon and uh we met a couple of Graziano and uh Sabrina I I know
27:04
Graziano works at caleffi because I I saw him at the factory um I think Sabrina might work at caleffi
27:10
too I'm not so sure um but they took us to restaurant in Corona honestly I don't remember the name but
27:17
boy that was fun that was a great meal and you know it's kind of confusing in Italy because they have like
27:23
first course second course main course and you know yeah we roll totally
27:29
different here yes appetizer yeah yeah and then the I'm still not quite sure what the second
27:34
course is it's usually a smaller course yeah it's a little bit bigger um but yeah the food was tremendous and
27:42
I had uh you know a veal chop that was breaded um and that was what Graziano said was
27:48
the the regions both well-known dish okay so when I put I took a picture of
27:53
it and put it on Facebook as I always do with everything I eat and people laughed at me because you know he went all that way and had a Redfield cutlet I'm like
28:00
wait a minute you know this is a the best bread of veal Cutlet you've ever had and uh it was going in too so it had
28:06
a little more flavor yeah but um yeah that was memorable um if I had spent another day in Arona I
28:13
would have gone back to that restaurant for sure because we didn't you know it's the only one time we went yeah uh and then Sunday Graziano and Sabrina picked
28:20
us up in their car and they drove us to another local place that they really liked and we sat outside and that was
28:26
another memorable dinner everybody in in America well I guess Europeans think
28:33
Americans eat way too much in their their plates full of food I tell you the restaurant we went to Sunday night uh is
28:40
American Stock because I heard a steak and a steak I don't know how much you weighed it was the size of the plate I
28:46
literally took it home to the hotel and we had a refrigerator in the room thank
28:51
God uh and I ate a little bit of that steak every morning for the next three days you know what it was is the wait
28:57
staff probably eyed you up and said well he's six and a half feet at all so we need to have a steak that's this big the
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American the big the big we're going to give them half a steer instead of like an eighth of the steer oh we had uh
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Monday we had a group dinner at our hotel which was a good a good meal uh
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the hotel was very nice that we stayed at kind of the edge of town Rona is you know kind of a I tell everybody if you
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wanna uh a laid-back Italian Lakeside town to go
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to for vacation go go there uh because the hotel was a little bit on the edge of town it's a little bit more quieter I
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guess um but then Tuesday yeah we had a group dinner again um in Arona it was very good and then
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the Wednesday we also had another group dinner okay and uh we had a nice lunch too um you know between the factory tours
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and everything else um but yeah they're if you go to Italy uh as the guest of caleffi they're going
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to feed you well I'm sure I I can't imagine there's bad food uh maybe there is
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um but um everything was so good yeah and the wine and the other thing too isn't fun too it's like you know the in
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America we don't have Town squares necessarily where you can you know in the morning and go go have coffee and
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then literally the same place at the end of the day you can go have a glass of wine and sit outside and do it so that's
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yeah it's just nice sounds like a great experience it's a different culture there and it sounds wonderful yeah
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well great I I think we covered everything we needed to cover and then some yeah we appreciate you joining us
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well thank you for the invitation I'm I'm glad I got to be here and tell you about uh my Italian Adventure awesome
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well until next time thank you thank you thank you for tuning in if you ever need
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thank you