#37 The Ask Caleffi team welcomes a new member (with Matt DeLuca)

How does Caleffi support a rapidly growing plumbing product offering?  What makes a great troubleshooter?  How do you train an apprentice in the first place?  Where is the best place to work if you are a Brewers fan and also a journeyman plumber?     

In this episode, the guys introduce the newest member of the Ask Caleffi team. Straight from the field, Matt DeLuca is a Journeyman plumber and expert troubleshooter. He talks to Dan and Greg about his background in the trades, starting in 2008.  He also shares the topic that has come up the most on the tech support lines in his first few weeks on the phones. 

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Transcript

0:00
[Music]
0:04
welcome to ask a leafy the podcast that
0:07
dives into real life problems at
0:09
plumbing and HVAC technicians face in
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the field we're your hosts from the
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Caleffi tech support team I'm Greg Tubbs
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and I'm Dan furkus welcome we look
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forward to sharing some stories from our
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Tech calls and using our background and
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expertise to make your days a little
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easier
0:27
thank you hey there welcome back to the
0:30
ask Cliffy podcast how we doing Dan
0:32
doing good today Greg how are you oh
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can't complain we got a new face in the
0:37
studio today and the tech team is
0:39
expanding
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yeah we got a little bit our waistlines
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now
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speaking speak for yourself there Cookie
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Monster
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I'll start walking to work yeah I might
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have to
0:57
so with us today we got our uh our new
1:00
co-worker Matt uh the new voice of the
1:02
tech support line how we doing Matt good
1:04
good Greg how are you doing yeah Welcome
1:06
Matt thank you so if you're new here
1:09
with kalefi you left the field what can
1:11
you tell us about your experience in the
1:13
field well I've been a plumber in the
1:16
local 75 uh southeastern Wisconsin for
1:19
about 14 years I'm started my
1:21
apprenticeship in 2008. it was with one
1:23
shop basically my whole apprenticeship
1:24
then when they went down Union right
1:26
before I was ready to write my
1:27
journeyman I've been with my last shop
1:30
for basically the last nine years since
1:32
then sure so you were pretty well
1:34
indentured into that shop yeah
1:36
absolutely I loved it cool good good
1:38
it's great to be with a good company so
1:40
2008 tough time to jump into the trades
1:43
absolutely yeah yeah I started my
1:45
apprenticeship my indenture date is
1:47
actually August 4th 2008 and if we all
1:50
remember September 2008 when bottom fell
1:53
out of the market construction basically
1:55
stopped for months and and that first
1:58
shop that I was with I mean this was all
2:00
of my experience Plumbing you know I had
2:02
zero they and in fact that worked in my
2:04
advantage because my boss at the time
2:06
specifically asked the hall for somebody
2:08
with zero experience that they could
2:10
build from the ground up that didn't
2:11
already have their own you know like oh
2:14
I've been doing this for six months this
2:16
is how we do this you know yeah so it
2:18
that kind of worked with my advantage in
2:20
fact but yeah I mean it was a it was a
2:22
lean couple of years there yeah tough
2:24
couple of years but probably a good time
2:25
because you're not running 100 miles an
2:27
hour you actually they and from your old
2:30
boss's standpoint a great time to get
2:32
somebody without the experience because
2:34
you actually have the time to train them
2:37
the way you want and build them and
2:39
teach them the way you want that to be
2:41
done probably really smart that way it
2:43
was a great time to do that yeah I mean
2:45
I know that's kind of how I started I
2:47
had no experience other than my tech
2:49
schooling and I had several offers and
2:52
the one I took they were they seem to be
2:54
happy with bringing on a guy that didn't
2:56
have all that experience yeah sometimes
2:58
you're better off to to groom them you
3:01
know groom someone and train them the
3:03
way you want it done then to try to
3:05
correct you know sure habits that are
3:07
already built into that or help help
3:09
them unlearn bad habits that they've
3:11
already come right all right yeah or
3:12
just to make it done the way you you
3:15
want it done sure so you uh got out of
3:17
out of the field and you're here now how
3:20
did you uh how did you find out about
3:22
this job
3:23
um basically I mean I wasn't looking for
3:25
a job I wasn't searching I love Plumbing
3:28
I love the company that I was working
3:29
for
3:30
um it's kind of how that goes yeah yeah
3:32
I know find someone you're not looking
3:35
for exactly sometimes you find the best
3:36
thing when you're not looking oh yeah
3:38
yeah and I I this opportunity just kind
3:41
of fell in my lap and the more I thought
3:43
about it the more I you know talked
3:45
about it with the family and I was like
3:46
huh this might be a really great
3:48
transition very cool yeah I suppose you
3:51
start to look at you know
3:53
you know you hit the journeyman level
3:55
you've got your time in you're running
3:57
jobs and you know you kind of look at it
3:59
and go okay what's my next challenge
4:01
sure it's my next opportunity yeah
4:03
exactly where it was at yep in some
4:05
places you don't get that next
4:07
opportunity or that next challenge or if
4:09
you do it's only because you've been
4:11
injured and you can no longer perform in
4:13
the field right yeah and at that point
4:15
they're finding something else to be
4:16
able to keep you on but I mean if you're
4:18
like us you know another opportunity
4:20
another chance to learn and grow I mean
4:23
definitely and enjoy that absolutely so
4:27
now that we know a little bit about your
4:29
technical background what else can you
4:30
share with us about you
4:32
um well I mean I'm you know 39 years old
4:34
like
4:36
frisbee golfing hiking kayaking stuff
4:39
like that real big Brewers fan sitting
4:42
basically in the parking lot of one of
4:43
my favorite places on planet right now a
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great place to be all day absolutely
4:47
yeah she has a Brewers fan you bet
4:49
unless you're trying to leave after a
4:50
day game yeah that's kind of rough yeah
4:53
but yeah Big Brewers Packers Badgers fan
4:56
basically just like hanging out taking
4:57
it easy when I'm not working yeah sure
5:00
you've been here for a few weeks now
5:01
taking some phone calls what's one of
5:05
the biggest things that's kind of
5:06
popping out at you about the phone calls
5:09
the type of phone calls we get maybe one
5:11
of the biggest ones we get well I mean
5:13
one of the main things that I've noticed
5:14
over the last couple of weeks taking
5:15
phone calls here is
5:17
um I mean obviously being summertime
5:19
they're more Plumbing related but those
5:22
Plumbing related ones tend to be
5:24
revolving around oversized mixing valves
5:27
a very hot topic yeah yeah I mean it's
5:31
40 of the calls that I've taken are
5:33
regarding especially like a legion well
5:37
it's hunting to try and get that set
5:39
point
5:39
um it's it tends to be because it's
5:41
oversized yeah it's pretty common theme
5:43
that we see you know what's interesting
5:45
is you start asking questions you know
5:47
trying to un under uncover how it's
5:51
sized or how it was selected and you
5:54
know it's pretty amazing that you know
5:56
when you ask what you know what the
5:58
design flow rate is of the project you
6:00
know a lot of guys just don't know
6:02
no they don't you know you you ask for
6:06
you know a design flow rate of the
6:07
project and it's crickets on the other
6:10
side you're talking about sizing that
6:12
really reminds me of a tech call I took
6:15
and I know I've shared the story before
6:16
uh but had a contractor working on a
6:20
commercial building in Tennessee and it
6:22
had an inch and a half Legion mix that
6:24
he had installed
6:26
um so and he was having issues with
6:28
temperature stability and and
6:29
maintaining you know obviously
6:31
consistent temperatures so I started
6:33
asking questions like you know what's
6:35
your design flow rate for the space well
6:38
he didn't know so you know it turned out
6:40
they were it was a hair salon with 30
6:42
studios in it and each one of them had a
6:45
head washing station that needed about a
6:47
half a gallon per minute so then we
6:49
started talking more and I asked them
6:50
you know what's your Source well he had
6:52
two tankless water heaters and I'm like
6:54
okay well what are the tankless water
6:56
heaters capable of providing and he's
6:58
like well each one is capable of
6:59
providing 11.5 gallons per minute of hot
7:02
water yo when I I look at that inch and
7:04
a half you know Legion mix Eddie
7:06
installed yeah you know I mean that's
7:08
got a really high design flow rate yeah
7:10
so the top end flow rate of that at 20
7:12
psi drop is 152 gallons a minute so
7:15
that's one once one check against you
7:18
yeah well and you look at the design
7:20
flow rate of that that's 93 93 gallons
7:24
per minute design flow rate so in design
7:25
flow rate when we say design flow rate
7:27
that is where that valve
7:30
will work most effectively yeah that's
7:33
where that valves that hunts it hunts
7:35
the least it modulates back and forth
7:37
the least yep so I asked him I said you
7:39
know okay how was that selected well it
7:41
was selected based on pipe size so here
7:44
he's got an inch and a half electronic
7:45
mixing valve and his Source water
7:48
heaters can only provide 23 gallons per
7:51
minute sure and in a worst case scenario
7:53
if everybody's getting their head washed
7:54
at once it's 15 Gallons a minute right
7:57
requirement right essentially so in that
8:00
I you know I recommend it we drop down
8:01
to a three-quarter inch yeah our
8:04
three-quarter inch has a design flow
8:05
rate of 27 gallons per minute so if your
8:08
water heaters are only capable of
8:09
providing 23
8:11
yo you certainly don't need an inch and
8:13
a half Legion mix no that thing's going
8:15
to hunt like crazy which it was doing
8:17
exactly so you know the benefit in that
8:20
application is you know all all of our
8:23
electronic mixing valves use the same
8:25
same
8:27
control they use the same actuator up to
8:31
two inch so for him all he had to do was
8:33
change the valve body and tail pieces
8:35
and and re-pipe the valve body itself
8:38
well that worked out cheaper than what
8:40
it could have for oh yeah yeah it was at
8:42
least a little easier solution for him
8:44
absolutely you know but that's where you
8:47
know we spent a lot of time on the
8:48
phones talking the guys through
8:50
determining what your design flow rates
8:52
are and and then picking a product to
8:55
match that exactly yeah I mean
8:57
definitely I can speak for as a plumber
9:00
though that's just kind of how I would
9:02
do it you know it was an inch and a half
9:04
pipe you're gonna put an inch and a half
9:05
valve in well when you actually get down
9:07
and look at this literature odds are
9:09
that's going to be oversized um
9:12
depending on what you're all serving but
9:14
it's very very possible I'd say even
9:16
likely that it is right well and you
9:19
know when you look at our Legion mix
9:21
that's a three-way ball valve that has a
9:23
very high CV yeah right
9:25
um so very very high CV rating so if we
9:28
even have guys that'll come in and they
9:30
tell us okay well I took out a two inch
9:32
thermostatic and I put in a two inch
9:35
electronic well thermostatic mixing
9:37
valve and electronic mixing valve
9:39
there's CV ratings are going to be quite
9:41
a bit different yeah you're not Apples
9:42
to Apples at all there I mean you look
9:44
at our two inch thermostatic you know
9:46
that has a 13.5 CV you go to our two
9:50
inch Legion mix what's 48 yeah 48cc a
9:55
huge difference this thing is huge no so
9:57
it's just important again you know when
9:59
you're taking those Tech calls I mean I
10:01
think you're getting a good taste for it
10:03
that a lot of times
10:05
helping them solve the problem is just
10:08
slowing the process down and taking them
10:10
through their paces and determine what
10:13
the right solution is yeah definitely I
10:15
mean when you actually get down to it
10:17
and and are looking at how much these
10:20
especially these Legion mixes can handle
10:22
um it's it's shocking as a plumber it
10:24
was almost blasphemy to take say you've
10:27
got an inch and a half hot and cold line
10:28
coming in getting mixed through a
10:30
one-inch valve body
10:32
um not only it just red flags everywhere
10:35
but when you actually do the calcs and
10:37
that's what it winds up being that's
10:39
that's where it's happiest right well
10:41
and and that's where you know we'll get
10:43
a lot of calls and guys want to you know
10:44
they'll call and they'll start out well
10:46
what's your warranty process you know
10:48
because I got a bad valve and it's like
10:49
I just installed and okay how old is it
10:52
well I just put it in
10:54
okay well
10:55
I mean there's a reason it's not
10:58
performing right I mean very rarely is
11:00
it a bad product coming out of the box
11:02
more often than not it's an application
11:05
problem with right you know the valve
11:08
not being happy and Performing the way
11:10
it should because of how it's being used
11:12
yeah sizing is critical and it's tough
11:16
to get even out of a new job
11:19
a lot of the the engineers are cut and
11:21
paste with with what they're putting in
11:23
the spec
11:24
because it's a spec job they just well
11:27
use this one because I know it works
11:28
sure but they're never really going
11:31
through or maybe they are or somebody is
11:34
but none of that information is made
11:36
available to the guy that's going to
11:38
install it so he looks at it like
11:41
everybody's doing it's an inch and a
11:43
half pipe I'm going to put an inch and a
11:45
half valve in
11:47
that's where we end up kind of taking
11:49
the bull by the horns and talking
11:52
through the job with some of these guys
11:54
and really trying to focus on a real
11:57
life situation number
12:00
well we'll designers send us specs you
12:03
know where it'll say you know maybe a
12:05
competitor's valve or or you know some
12:09
generic you can tell it's cut and paste
12:12
specs on a valve and you know we kind of
12:14
have to push them to go back and get
12:16
more information you know neither we
12:18
don't hear from them again because the
12:20
engineer doesn't want to give them the
12:21
numbers or we do here no or they don't
12:24
know yeah so then we end up kind of
12:26
helping them out along the way let's do
12:29
a fixture count in this thing what do we
12:31
think the real world scenario is are we
12:34
going to use a third of those fixtures
12:35
at once and how long are we going to use
12:37
them for sure exactly you know and
12:39
that's another rabbit hole we can dive
12:40
down another episode because I did talk
12:43
with an engineer and there's kind of
12:45
some there's many different ways of
12:47
trying to figure this out and nothing's
12:49
really set in concrete and it's a little
12:51
confusing yeah it definitely can be
12:53
another thing that should really be
12:54
considered too is the minimum flow rate
12:56
through these valves that winds up being
12:58
a lot of the calls too that we get
13:00
because there is actually quite I mean
13:02
let's say like an inch and a half Legion
13:04
mix
13:05
um that minimum flow rate is 6.6 GPM so
13:07
I mean that's at zero use that's a hefty
13:10
chunk of water out as well right exactly
13:13
yeah it's a lot of flow and I think
13:15
that's one thing that people don't take
13:17
into consideration is a minimum flow you
13:19
know a lot of people may look at you
13:21
know design flow rate or Max flow rate
13:23
but a lot you got to realize that
13:25
everything's got a minimum flow rate
13:27
yeah anytime you're talking a high flow
13:29
mixing valve of any kind it's not just
13:30
ours it's yeah right everybody's there's
13:34
you got to read the fine print and and
13:36
really dive into the spec and sometimes
13:38
the information is not very easy to find
13:41
right so you make sure you get that
13:43
valve piped and have the right system in
13:46
place to help meet that minimum flow
13:48
rate so that a time of low or no use
13:50
you're able to still maintain right and
13:53
I know it's Blasphemous but whenever we
13:55
see we tell a guy he needs a
13:57
three-quarter inch valve in a in we'll
14:00
say an inch and a half line
14:02
when we tell them to install that thing
14:05
the best thing to do is put your
14:07
reducers right off the union fittings
14:09
right right at those tail pieces yeah
14:11
that way they're you don't have I mean
14:13
we've seen some installs where there's
14:15
you know two plus feet of small pipe and
14:18
then they go into the big pipe on on
14:20
their reducing fittings and it's really
14:23
not going to be
14:26
very
14:27
very good on it towards the end of the
14:30
system's life I mean you get to worry
14:31
about erosion corrosion and the piping
14:33
yeah well you got to work worry about
14:35
the velocity because there's you know
14:37
you're putting a valve in that can
14:39
handle a certain flow rate you know say
14:41
you're putting in uh you know a two inch
14:43
legio mix and a design flow rate of 113
14:46
one gallons per minute right well a two
14:49
inch pipe isn't going to be happy at 131
14:52
GPM to keep your velocity right and not
14:55
create that erosion corrosion so you
14:57
have to upsize that piping to to be able
15:00
to handle the 131 GPM at a an
15:03
appropriate velocity yeah and that's
15:05
another one we can talk about too is is
15:08
it maximum flow rates versus what the
15:10
actual copper pipe can handle right the
15:13
valves can handle a lot more than the
15:15
pipe can right yeah with copper pipe you
15:17
don't want to exceed five feet per
15:19
second for the UPC so you know you start
15:22
you need 131 GPM you start pushing that
15:25
through a two inch pipe which our valve
15:27
can handle it's not gonna you're not
15:29
going to meet codes so you have to
15:31
upsize the piping to handle that within
15:34
the five feet per second or less
15:36
but then you want to run that piping
15:38
right up to the body and reduce
15:40
exactly sizing really comes into play
15:42
with all of our products I mean it's
15:44
just yeah you know it's very important
15:46
to to know what you're looking for pick
15:50
the right product and if you're not sure
15:52
call us yeah either me Dan or Matt we're
15:56
happy to help you out that's what we're
15:57
here for yeah we'll spend the time we
15:59
got to Nomad a little bit we talked a
16:01
little bit about oversizing and got into
16:04
the weeds a little bit some more about
16:05
other things so tune in next time we'll
16:09
see you on the next one
16:11
thank you for tuning in if you ever need
16:13
help please feel free to contact our
16:15
tech support team anytime at
16:20
techsupport.uscaleffi.com or call us
16:22
during our business hours at 7 30 a.m to
16:26
4 30 PM Central Time
16:30
414-238-2360
16:36
foreign
16:37
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